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	<title>Comments on: Key and the Art of Tragedy</title>
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	<link>http://blog.ephemeraleternity.com/2009/01/31/key-and-the-art-of-tragedy/</link>
	<description>Thoughts, insight, and analysis from a starry-eyed fan seeking enlightenment</description>
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		<title>By: ETERNAL</title>
		<link>http://blog.ephemeraleternity.com/2009/01/31/key-and-the-art-of-tragedy/comment-page-1/#comment-2939</link>
		<dc:creator>ETERNAL</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 13 Feb 2009 23:27:03 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://memories-of-eternity.com/?p=1540#comment-2939</guid>
		<description>&lt;b&gt;@ Sorrow-kun:&lt;/b&gt; Like with many things, I suppose balance is the key. While I&#039;d still hesitate to condemn tragedies that appear as plot twists, it&#039;s true that without sufficient build-up, a tragedy - or for that matter, a plot twist in general - would not be very effective. While some stories have more build up than others (Clannad is definitely one of those where you see things coming but try to hide from it anyhow), I don&#039;t imagine that there are very many stories that have &lt;i&gt;no&lt;/i&gt; build-up at all. Even in AIR, or in anything else like it, there are always &lt;i&gt;some&lt;/i&gt; hints that give you clues about what&#039;s coming, but some stories do it more blatantly than others. I guess it comes down to the fact that, like you said, a tragedy that &lt;i&gt;truly&lt;/i&gt; comes out of nowhere would be jarring. It&#039;s ultimately all about finding the perfect balance and determining just how much to foreshadow. 

&lt;b&gt;@ tmsidr:&lt;/b&gt; Chrno Crusade has been on my watch list for the longest time now as I keep hearing good things about it. I already heard about the ending (in a vague sense) before hand, but somehow, that only made me want to watch it even more. If you&#039;re comparing it to AIR, then I&#039;ll definitely check it out at some point :P</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><b>@ Sorrow-kun:</b> Like with many things, I suppose balance is the key. While I&#8217;d still hesitate to condemn tragedies that appear as plot twists, it&#8217;s true that without sufficient build-up, a tragedy &#8211; or for that matter, a plot twist in general &#8211; would not be very effective. While some stories have more build up than others (Clannad is definitely one of those where you see things coming but try to hide from it anyhow), I don&#8217;t imagine that there are very many stories that have <i>no</i> build-up at all. Even in AIR, or in anything else like it, there are always <i>some</i> hints that give you clues about what&#8217;s coming, but some stories do it more blatantly than others. I guess it comes down to the fact that, like you said, a tragedy that <i>truly</i> comes out of nowhere would be jarring. It&#8217;s ultimately all about finding the perfect balance and determining just how much to foreshadow. </p>
<p><b>@ tmsidr:</b> Chrno Crusade has been on my watch list for the longest time now as I keep hearing good things about it. I already heard about the ending (in a vague sense) before hand, but somehow, that only made me want to watch it even more. If you&#8217;re comparing it to AIR, then I&#8217;ll definitely check it out at some point :P</p>
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		<title>By: tmsidr</title>
		<link>http://blog.ephemeraleternity.com/2009/01/31/key-and-the-art-of-tragedy/comment-page-1/#comment-2923</link>
		<dc:creator>tmsidr</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 09 Feb 2009 22:50:36 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://memories-of-eternity.com/?p=1540#comment-2923</guid>
		<description>I also like the tragedy animes and I think Air was so far the most touching I ever saw, because it really made you feel so powerless. Another show crossed my mind that totally belongs to another genre, but where the ending could be foreseen but it really doesn&#039;t fit into genre: Chrno Crusade. The ending was made clear from the beginning, but normally in these action shows they find a way to help the main character so that they can have a happy end, but Rosette wasn&#039;t supposed to get on living. The show has a lot of flaws but the ending really touched me. It&#039;s similar to the Air-Misuzu ending, where the main character wasn&#039;t really the kind of person that normally dies at the end.

&lt;abbr&gt;&lt;em&gt;&lt;abbr&gt;&lt;em&gt;tmsidrs last blog post..&lt;a href=&quot;http://www.sos-brigade.de/wordpress/?p=1095&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;Ein paar Eindrücke zu Suzumiya Haruhi no Gekidou&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/em&gt;&lt;/abbr&gt;&lt;/abbr&gt;&lt;/em&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I also like the tragedy animes and I think Air was so far the most touching I ever saw, because it really made you feel so powerless. Another show crossed my mind that totally belongs to another genre, but where the ending could be foreseen but it really doesn&#8217;t fit into genre: Chrno Crusade. The ending was made clear from the beginning, but normally in these action shows they find a way to help the main character so that they can have a happy end, but Rosette wasn&#8217;t supposed to get on living. The show has a lot of flaws but the ending really touched me. It&#8217;s similar to the Air-Misuzu ending, where the main character wasn&#8217;t really the kind of person that normally dies at the end.</p>
<p><abbr><em><abbr><em>tmsidrs last blog post..<a href="http://www.sos-brigade.de/wordpress/?p=1095" rel="nofollow">Ein paar Eindrücke zu Suzumiya Haruhi no Gekidou</a></em></abbr></em></abbr></p>
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		<title>By: Sorrow-kun</title>
		<link>http://blog.ephemeraleternity.com/2009/01/31/key-and-the-art-of-tragedy/comment-page-1/#comment-2902</link>
		<dc:creator>Sorrow-kun</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 06 Feb 2009 12:37:08 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://memories-of-eternity.com/?p=1540#comment-2902</guid>
		<description>&lt;blockquote&gt;Because ultimately, there is no such thing as a good or bad tragedy, just as there is no such thing as a good or bad anime.&quot;&lt;/blockquote&gt;
Let&#039;s not say things which are crazy.

Tragedy is such a vague thing to think about in anime, because, in actuality, there&#039;s not a massive amount of tragic anime, and a lot of them just aren&#039;t that good (your Da Capo example is an apt one).  I, too, have been trying to figure out what makes the difference between a good tragedy and a bad one, and why Key adaptations have a real knack for inciting really strong emotions.  The events of ep 16 of Clannad After Story are a really interesting example of Key tragedy to think about; there was this two or three episode build up leading up to it where there were numerous little flags foreshadowing what was coming.  The audience was reasonably prepared for what was coming, which might be why it never felt jarring or out-of-place.  But, then again, you never quite want to completely admit that your favourite character might die, which is why it still comes as a shock (although, with that said, Nagisa isn&#039;t my favourite character).

I guess build up is a big part of good tragedy.  Tragedy tends to work best when there&#039;s enough build up that the events don&#039;t feel jarring, but there&#039;s still enough of a shock to move the audience.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<blockquote><p>Because ultimately, there is no such thing as a good or bad tragedy, just as there is no such thing as a good or bad anime.&#8221;</p></blockquote>
<p>Let&#8217;s not say things which are crazy.</p>
<p>Tragedy is such a vague thing to think about in anime, because, in actuality, there&#8217;s not a massive amount of tragic anime, and a lot of them just aren&#8217;t that good (your Da Capo example is an apt one).  I, too, have been trying to figure out what makes the difference between a good tragedy and a bad one, and why Key adaptations have a real knack for inciting really strong emotions.  The events of ep 16 of Clannad After Story are a really interesting example of Key tragedy to think about; there was this two or three episode build up leading up to it where there were numerous little flags foreshadowing what was coming.  The audience was reasonably prepared for what was coming, which might be why it never felt jarring or out-of-place.  But, then again, you never quite want to completely admit that your favourite character might die, which is why it still comes as a shock (although, with that said, Nagisa isn&#8217;t my favourite character).</p>
<p>I guess build up is a big part of good tragedy.  Tragedy tends to work best when there&#8217;s enough build up that the events don&#8217;t feel jarring, but there&#8217;s still enough of a shock to move the audience.</p>
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		<title>By: ETERNAL</title>
		<link>http://blog.ephemeraleternity.com/2009/01/31/key-and-the-art-of-tragedy/comment-page-1/#comment-2900</link>
		<dc:creator>ETERNAL</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 06 Feb 2009 01:23:28 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://memories-of-eternity.com/?p=1540#comment-2900</guid>
		<description>&lt;b&gt;@ M12&lt;/b&gt;: Though this is a slightly different topic, I agree that Narcissu explored the theme in more depth, especially with the addition of the guy&#039;s illness. As a matter of fact, it wasn&#039;t until the end that I felt traces of romance, and I don&#039;t think &lt;i&gt;any&lt;/i&gt; of it could have been defined as moe. I suppose there will always be a difference between Key and other tragedies because it&#039;s in the nature of male-targeted VNs to attempt to force emotion out of the reader, rather than taking a more &quot;genuine&quot; approach to the genre.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><b>@ M12</b>: Though this is a slightly different topic, I agree that Narcissu explored the theme in more depth, especially with the addition of the guy&#8217;s illness. As a matter of fact, it wasn&#8217;t until the end that I felt traces of romance, and I don&#8217;t think <i>any</i> of it could have been defined as moe. I suppose there will always be a difference between Key and other tragedies because it&#8217;s in the nature of male-targeted VNs to attempt to force emotion out of the reader, rather than taking a more &#8220;genuine&#8221; approach to the genre.</p>
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		<title>By: M12</title>
		<link>http://blog.ephemeraleternity.com/2009/01/31/key-and-the-art-of-tragedy/comment-page-1/#comment-2898</link>
		<dc:creator>M12</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 05 Feb 2009 08:40:16 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://memories-of-eternity.com/?p=1540#comment-2898</guid>
		<description>To be honest, I find most of Key&#039;s plots very cliche. They try extremely hard to make viewers sad. It doesn&#039;t work for me. Except for Tomoyo&#039;s backstory. I enjoyed that. I also liked Air&#039;s plot overall.

To me, Narcissu is the real title that explored the death theme well. The concept sounds generic, yet I didn&#039;t roll my eyes about it. In fact, I loved it.

&lt;abbr&gt;&lt;em&gt;&lt;abbr&gt;&lt;em&gt;M12s last blog post..&lt;a href=&quot;http://vjutsu.com/?p=714&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;New Project: On the Rail&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/em&gt;&lt;/abbr&gt;&lt;/abbr&gt;&lt;/em&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>To be honest, I find most of Key&#8217;s plots very cliche. They try extremely hard to make viewers sad. It doesn&#8217;t work for me. Except for Tomoyo&#8217;s backstory. I enjoyed that. I also liked Air&#8217;s plot overall.</p>
<p>To me, Narcissu is the real title that explored the death theme well. The concept sounds generic, yet I didn&#8217;t roll my eyes about it. In fact, I loved it.</p>
<p><abbr><em><abbr><em>M12s last blog post..<a href="http://vjutsu.com/?p=714" rel="nofollow">New Project: On the Rail</a></em></abbr></em></abbr></p>
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		<title>By: IKnight</title>
		<link>http://blog.ephemeraleternity.com/2009/01/31/key-and-the-art-of-tragedy/comment-page-1/#comment-2897</link>
		<dc:creator>IKnight</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 04 Feb 2009 22:29:31 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://memories-of-eternity.com/?p=1540#comment-2897</guid>
		<description>Actually, I suppose the use of dramatic irony is one way that these tragedies resemble &#039;classic&#039; tragedies in modern performance: nowadays, the audience all know that they end badly. &lt;em&gt;Romeo and Juliet&lt;/em&gt; even begins by telling us that it has a BAD END.

&lt;abbr&gt;&lt;em&gt;&lt;abbr&gt;&lt;em&gt;IKnights last blog post..&lt;a href=&quot;http://animanachronism.wordpress.com/2009/01/28/varying-degrees-of-whut/&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;Varying Degrees of Whut&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/em&gt;&lt;/abbr&gt;&lt;/abbr&gt;&lt;/em&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Actually, I suppose the use of dramatic irony is one way that these tragedies resemble &#8216;classic&#8217; tragedies in modern performance: nowadays, the audience all know that they end badly. <em>Romeo and Juliet</em> even begins by telling us that it has a BAD END.</p>
<p><abbr><em><abbr><em>IKnights last blog post..<a href="http://animanachronism.wordpress.com/2009/01/28/varying-degrees-of-whut/" rel="nofollow">Varying Degrees of Whut</a></em></abbr></em></abbr></p>
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		<title>By: ETERNAL</title>
		<link>http://blog.ephemeraleternity.com/2009/01/31/key-and-the-art-of-tragedy/comment-page-1/#comment-2895</link>
		<dc:creator>ETERNAL</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 03 Feb 2009 01:38:42 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://memories-of-eternity.com/?p=1540#comment-2895</guid>
		<description>&lt;b&gt;@ lelangir:&lt;/b&gt; I&#039;d like to say that you have a vivid imagination, but oddly enough, that actually sounds plausible. Sorta. Knowing Key, anything could happen XD

&lt;b&gt;@ afatcow:&lt;/b&gt; If you want to be technical about it, I guess that would fall under the same category as AIR and the like. But I&#039;m not sure if it&#039;s closer to tragedy than failure :P

&lt;b&gt;@ GNdynames:&lt;/b&gt; Of course, the fact that everything is ultimately subjective is sort of a given when it comes to these things. Bittersweet is definitely a good way of putting it, and in all but the most extreme cases, I find myself feeling the same way: sympathy for the characters, a little joy at the fact that the series has reached a new level of awesome, and then more sadness if I can connect the story to real life. &#039;Course, that&#039;s just me, and each of us probably has a different answer.

&lt;b&gt;@ IKnight:&lt;/b&gt; Indeed, if done correctly, it can be just as - or maybe even &lt;i&gt;more&lt;/i&gt; powerful if you can see it coming. I got that feeling from Saikano to some extent, where I understood intellectually that the show would have a tragic ending, but still tried to resist the notion until it could be resisted no longer. And yes, there were many days - mostly back at my old anime list at ANN - where I mentioned shows that can &quot;make you wish you could enter the TV screen, just so that you could change the inevitable&quot;. It&#039;s that kind of skillful storytelling that gave Narcissu such a bittersweet, heart-tugging feeling for me, even if your brain tells you the ending right from the start.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><b>@ lelangir:</b> I&#8217;d like to say that you have a vivid imagination, but oddly enough, that actually sounds plausible. Sorta. Knowing Key, anything could happen XD</p>
<p><b>@ afatcow:</b> If you want to be technical about it, I guess that would fall under the same category as AIR and the like. But I&#8217;m not sure if it&#8217;s closer to tragedy than failure :P</p>
<p><b>@ GNdynames:</b> Of course, the fact that everything is ultimately subjective is sort of a given when it comes to these things. Bittersweet is definitely a good way of putting it, and in all but the most extreme cases, I find myself feeling the same way: sympathy for the characters, a little joy at the fact that the series has reached a new level of awesome, and then more sadness if I can connect the story to real life. &#8216;Course, that&#8217;s just me, and each of us probably has a different answer.</p>
<p><b>@ IKnight:</b> Indeed, if done correctly, it can be just as &#8211; or maybe even <i>more</i> powerful if you can see it coming. I got that feeling from Saikano to some extent, where I understood intellectually that the show would have a tragic ending, but still tried to resist the notion until it could be resisted no longer. And yes, there were many days &#8211; mostly back at my old anime list at ANN &#8211; where I mentioned shows that can &#8220;make you wish you could enter the TV screen, just so that you could change the inevitable&#8221;. It&#8217;s that kind of skillful storytelling that gave Narcissu such a bittersweet, heart-tugging feeling for me, even if your brain tells you the ending right from the start.</p>
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		<title>By: IKnight</title>
		<link>http://blog.ephemeraleternity.com/2009/01/31/key-and-the-art-of-tragedy/comment-page-1/#comment-2892</link>
		<dc:creator>IKnight</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 02 Feb 2009 08:16:31 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://memories-of-eternity.com/?p=1540#comment-2892</guid>
		<description>I don&#039;t have much time for the &#039;she dies at the end&#039; criticism, because, when it&#039;s done well, tragedy can elicit a strong reaction even if you know the plot. In fact, the fact that you &lt;em&gt;do&lt;/em&gt; know can enhance the effect: you know it&#039;s going to happen, and there&#039;s nothing you can do about it - it&#039;s the nastier side of dramatic irony.

&lt;abbr&gt;&lt;em&gt;&lt;abbr&gt;&lt;em&gt;IKnights last blog post..&lt;a href=&quot;http://animanachronism.wordpress.com/2009/01/28/varying-degrees-of-whut/&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;Varying Degrees of Whut&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/em&gt;&lt;/abbr&gt;&lt;/abbr&gt;&lt;/em&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I don&#8217;t have much time for the &#8216;she dies at the end&#8217; criticism, because, when it&#8217;s done well, tragedy can elicit a strong reaction even if you know the plot. In fact, the fact that you <em>do</em> know can enhance the effect: you know it&#8217;s going to happen, and there&#8217;s nothing you can do about it &#8211; it&#8217;s the nastier side of dramatic irony.</p>
<p><abbr><em><abbr><em>IKnights last blog post..<a href="http://animanachronism.wordpress.com/2009/01/28/varying-degrees-of-whut/" rel="nofollow">Varying Degrees of Whut</a></em></abbr></em></abbr></p>
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		<title>By: GNdynames</title>
		<link>http://blog.ephemeraleternity.com/2009/01/31/key-and-the-art-of-tragedy/comment-page-1/#comment-2890</link>
		<dc:creator>GNdynames</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 01 Feb 2009 20:55:24 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://memories-of-eternity.com/?p=1540#comment-2890</guid>
		<description>&#039;course, one can say that everything that is not materialistic can be anything anyone perceives. Reality is different for different people.

But what can I say, the element of tragedy is bittersweet for those who understand it. I for one am too empathetic towards the characters and that&#039;s a reason why I&#039;ve abstained from them since school started.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8216;course, one can say that everything that is not materialistic can be anything anyone perceives. Reality is different for different people.</p>
<p>But what can I say, the element of tragedy is bittersweet for those who understand it. I for one am too empathetic towards the characters and that&#8217;s a reason why I&#8217;ve abstained from them since school started.</p>
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		<title>By: Kairu Ishimaru</title>
		<link>http://blog.ephemeraleternity.com/2009/01/31/key-and-the-art-of-tragedy/comment-page-1/#comment-2886</link>
		<dc:creator>Kairu Ishimaru</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 01 Feb 2009 12:33:33 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://memories-of-eternity.com/?p=1540#comment-2886</guid>
		<description>Hell yes! KEY!

&lt;abbr&gt;&lt;em&gt;&lt;abbr&gt;&lt;em&gt;Kairu Ishimarus last blog post..&lt;a href=&quot;http://yoroshiku.vandeft.com/?p=930&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;Yoroshiku On Hiatus&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/em&gt;&lt;/abbr&gt;&lt;/abbr&gt;&lt;/em&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hell yes! KEY!</p>
<p><abbr><em><abbr><em>Kairu Ishimarus last blog post..<a href="http://yoroshiku.vandeft.com/?p=930" rel="nofollow">Yoroshiku On Hiatus</a></em></abbr></em></abbr></p>
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