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	<title>Comments on: 2D Characters, 3D Projection</title>
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	<link>http://blog.ephemeraleternity.com/2010/01/18/2d-characters-3d-projection/</link>
	<description>Thoughts, insight, and analysis from a starry-eyed fan seeking enlightenment</description>
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		<title>By: ETERNAL</title>
		<link>http://blog.ephemeraleternity.com/2010/01/18/2d-characters-3d-projection/comment-page-1/#comment-5720</link>
		<dc:creator>ETERNAL</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 21 Jan 2010 01:00:49 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.ephemeraleternity.com/?p=2979#comment-5720</guid>
		<description>&quot;Falling in love&quot; isn&#039;t the way I&#039;d put it, but I definitely think there&#039;s more to moe than character design. That&#039;s the only way galge makes sense, considering the ero scenes are few and far between. It&#039;s funny because I always looked at it from the opposite perspective: lots of things can be sexually attractive, but moe is one of the only things that can go past that.

Anyway, this reminds me of something I was supposed to write for a while, so I&#039;ll probably toss together a post in a couple days. Moe theory FTW.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;Falling in love&#8221; isn&#8217;t the way I&#8217;d put it, but I definitely think there&#8217;s more to moe than character design. That&#8217;s the only way galge makes sense, considering the ero scenes are few and far between. It&#8217;s funny because I always looked at it from the opposite perspective: lots of things can be sexually attractive, but moe is one of the only things that can go past that.</p>
<p>Anyway, this reminds me of something I was supposed to write for a while, so I&#8217;ll probably toss together a post in a couple days. Moe theory FTW.</p>
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		<title>By: Ryan A</title>
		<link>http://blog.ephemeraleternity.com/2010/01/18/2d-characters-3d-projection/comment-page-1/#comment-5719</link>
		<dc:creator>Ryan A</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 20 Jan 2010 21:44:45 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.ephemeraleternity.com/?p=2979#comment-5719</guid>
		<description>@ETERNAL I didn&#039;t really have much opinion on K-ON! aside from whatever I social-blogged on Melative, but it was only a few episodes. I&#039;m just now working through the rest of it, albeit very slowly. It&#039;s decent characterization, and a tad moe at times, but I don&#039;t find it overwhelming. Things like Mio crouching in a corner trying to not be scared or whatever, that seems kinda lame (perhaps forced, but mainly... it&#039;s gimmicky). Will have to continue to see where it goes.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@ETERNAL I didn&#8217;t really have much opinion on K-ON! aside from whatever I social-blogged on Melative, but it was only a few episodes. I&#8217;m just now working through the rest of it, albeit very slowly. It&#8217;s decent characterization, and a tad moe at times, but I don&#8217;t find it overwhelming. Things like Mio crouching in a corner trying to not be scared or whatever, that seems kinda lame (perhaps forced, but mainly&#8230; it&#8217;s gimmicky). Will have to continue to see where it goes.</p>
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		<title>By: Shin</title>
		<link>http://blog.ephemeraleternity.com/2010/01/18/2d-characters-3d-projection/comment-page-1/#comment-5715</link>
		<dc:creator>Shin</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 20 Jan 2010 10:19:59 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.ephemeraleternity.com/?p=2979#comment-5715</guid>
		<description>How could I fall in love with 2D? I mean, I could have sexual desires but just because it simulates a 3D body without too much detail that some would consider unaesthetic. But falling in love? You mean the character&#039;s personality? In that case I would fall in love with the character designer, which by the way is 3D.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>How could I fall in love with 2D? I mean, I could have sexual desires but just because it simulates a 3D body without too much detail that some would consider unaesthetic. But falling in love? You mean the character&#8217;s personality? In that case I would fall in love with the character designer, which by the way is 3D.</p>
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		<title>By: ETERNAL</title>
		<link>http://blog.ephemeraleternity.com/2010/01/18/2d-characters-3d-projection/comment-page-1/#comment-5713</link>
		<dc:creator>ETERNAL</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 20 Jan 2010 01:44:29 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.ephemeraleternity.com/?p=2979#comment-5713</guid>
		<description>&lt;b&gt;@ mefloraine:&lt;/b&gt; That&#039;s the basic idea. It&#039;s a little tricky when you start dealing with stuff like galge, in which the goal is to provide a pleasant escape from reality that the reader can willfully believe in, but the concept is the same. I think that&#039;s one aspect of moe that a lot of people miss, &lt;i&gt;especially&lt;/i&gt; the non-fans.

&lt;b&gt;@ phossil:&lt;/b&gt; That&#039;s the secret to &lt;i&gt;drawing&lt;/i&gt; a moe character, but you wouldn&#039;t pick a &quot;waifu&quot; based solely on character design. Of course, character design is still a huge factor, and it&#039;s the most visible one (and thus the one that most people notice first). 

&lt;b&gt;@ Ryan A:&lt;/b&gt; Agreed. I can&#039;t remember your opinion of K-on, but one of the things I liked about it was that the characters never tried to act moe. The intent of KyoAni and the source material is obvious, but the characters exist within their own universe, and their &quot;cuteness&quot; just comes naturally. We call it pandering because we know the industry and the fandom, but if you view it in isolation, it&#039;s innocent. And it&#039;s definitely convincing.

&lt;b&gt;@ Nazarielle:&lt;/b&gt; I don&#039;t care for the &lt;i&gt;auu~&lt;/i&gt;, but I think Kanon&#039;s biggest strength is its ability to &quot;showcase&quot; the charms of each of the girls. Like you said, it&#039;s character based. If a moe character is portrayed well, it can make all the difference, and I think Kanon does &lt;i&gt;all&lt;/i&gt; of its characters well - they&#039;re just not all relevant to my interests.

&lt;b&gt;@ gaguri:&lt;/b&gt; This post was from the perspective of a moe fan (i.e. evaluating Kanon&#039;s success at being good at pandering as opposed to bad at pandering). It&#039;s forced from the perspective of plot, but within the context of galge/moe fandom, I think its characters feel natural.

That said, you can definitely apply this  basic concept to any genre, or even any medium.

&lt;b&gt;@ Aorii:&lt;/b&gt; A bit tangential, but that&#039;s true. Looking at it this way, it&#039;s not that different from the whole concept of building a fictional universe in that realism is less important than consistency.

(I explained my statement about Mai in the post and in response to Nazarielle, but I understand your rage :P)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><b>@ mefloraine:</b> That&#8217;s the basic idea. It&#8217;s a little tricky when you start dealing with stuff like galge, in which the goal is to provide a pleasant escape from reality that the reader can willfully believe in, but the concept is the same. I think that&#8217;s one aspect of moe that a lot of people miss, <i>especially</i> the non-fans.</p>
<p><b>@ phossil:</b> That&#8217;s the secret to <i>drawing</i> a moe character, but you wouldn&#8217;t pick a &#8220;waifu&#8221; based solely on character design. Of course, character design is still a huge factor, and it&#8217;s the most visible one (and thus the one that most people notice first). </p>
<p><b>@ Ryan A:</b> Agreed. I can&#8217;t remember your opinion of K-on, but one of the things I liked about it was that the characters never tried to act moe. The intent of KyoAni and the source material is obvious, but the characters exist within their own universe, and their &#8220;cuteness&#8221; just comes naturally. We call it pandering because we know the industry and the fandom, but if you view it in isolation, it&#8217;s innocent. And it&#8217;s definitely convincing.</p>
<p><b>@ Nazarielle:</b> I don&#8217;t care for the <i>auu~</i>, but I think Kanon&#8217;s biggest strength is its ability to &#8220;showcase&#8221; the charms of each of the girls. Like you said, it&#8217;s character based. If a moe character is portrayed well, it can make all the difference, and I think Kanon does <i>all</i> of its characters well &#8211; they&#8217;re just not all relevant to my interests.</p>
<p><b>@ gaguri:</b> This post was from the perspective of a moe fan (i.e. evaluating Kanon&#8217;s success at being good at pandering as opposed to bad at pandering). It&#8217;s forced from the perspective of plot, but within the context of galge/moe fandom, I think its characters feel natural.</p>
<p>That said, you can definitely apply this  basic concept to any genre, or even any medium.</p>
<p><b>@ Aorii:</b> A bit tangential, but that&#8217;s true. Looking at it this way, it&#8217;s not that different from the whole concept of building a fictional universe in that realism is less important than consistency.</p>
<p>(I explained my statement about Mai in the post and in response to Nazarielle, but I understand your rage :P)</p>
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		<title>By: Aorii</title>
		<link>http://blog.ephemeraleternity.com/2010/01/18/2d-characters-3d-projection/comment-page-1/#comment-5710</link>
		<dc:creator>Aorii</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 19 Jan 2010 13:43:44 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.ephemeraleternity.com/?p=2979#comment-5710</guid>
		<description>Fundamentals of dynamic character design isn&#039;t it?

There&#039;s realism, and there&#039;s &quot;realism&quot;. Character design never has to be truly realistic, although sometimes it does help when the audience can look at a character and claim &#039;I knew someone just like this&#039;. Most of the girls from galge are simply too innocent, too nice, that it&#039;s impossible to believe they&#039;d be that way at high-school age IRL, but most young people aren&#039;t going to fault that (though I&#039;ve met plenty of middle-aged adults that do). However, there are realism aspects that should never be thrown out the door, like consistent and logical behavior. I don&#039;t mean that the character has to think logically, but if one of their decisions leave the audience dumbfounded and unable to see why that just happened given circumstances and their personality, something is going down.

(more *rage* at &quot;Mai is dull&quot;)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Fundamentals of dynamic character design isn&#8217;t it?</p>
<p>There&#8217;s realism, and there&#8217;s &#8220;realism&#8221;. Character design never has to be truly realistic, although sometimes it does help when the audience can look at a character and claim &#8216;I knew someone just like this&#8217;. Most of the girls from galge are simply too innocent, too nice, that it&#8217;s impossible to believe they&#8217;d be that way at high-school age IRL, but most young people aren&#8217;t going to fault that (though I&#8217;ve met plenty of middle-aged adults that do). However, there are realism aspects that should never be thrown out the door, like consistent and logical behavior. I don&#8217;t mean that the character has to think logically, but if one of their decisions leave the audience dumbfounded and unable to see why that just happened given circumstances and their personality, something is going down.</p>
<p>(more *rage* at &#8220;Mai is dull&#8221;)</p>
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		<title>By: gaguri</title>
		<link>http://blog.ephemeraleternity.com/2010/01/18/2d-characters-3d-projection/comment-page-1/#comment-5708</link>
		<dc:creator>gaguri</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 19 Jan 2010 11:19:35 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.ephemeraleternity.com/?p=2979#comment-5708</guid>
		<description>I wrote a post similar to this before (about characters in bakemonogatari and toradora) in a reference to Martin&#039;s post on the magic of falling for 2d characters (like senjougahara and murakami&#039;s characters).  

I won&#039;t link it but my basic point was that, like you say, anime don&#039;t really need realism to capture you. Not just moe/galge/harem like Kanon, but things like mecha/shounen/shoujo you name it. Not just the writing, but with appropriate animations/art/voice acting/direction/soundtrack etc. You do it right and connect with the viewer, and the characters and world they see in front of them becomes more than just moving pictures, then at that moment that&#039;s the only realism that matters. 

One more comment. As much as I love Kanon 2006, I do think large portion of the show was direct pandering and forced, but that&#039;s just my perception (although I&#039;m sure many others feel the same way).</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I wrote a post similar to this before (about characters in bakemonogatari and toradora) in a reference to Martin&#8217;s post on the magic of falling for 2d characters (like senjougahara and murakami&#8217;s characters).  </p>
<p>I won&#8217;t link it but my basic point was that, like you say, anime don&#8217;t really need realism to capture you. Not just moe/galge/harem like Kanon, but things like mecha/shounen/shoujo you name it. Not just the writing, but with appropriate animations/art/voice acting/direction/soundtrack etc. You do it right and connect with the viewer, and the characters and world they see in front of them becomes more than just moving pictures, then at that moment that&#8217;s the only realism that matters. </p>
<p>One more comment. As much as I love Kanon 2006, I do think large portion of the show was direct pandering and forced, but that&#8217;s just my perception (although I&#8217;m sure many others feel the same way).</p>
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		<title>By: Nazarielle</title>
		<link>http://blog.ephemeraleternity.com/2010/01/18/2d-characters-3d-projection/comment-page-1/#comment-5706</link>
		<dc:creator>Nazarielle</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 19 Jan 2010 04:43:30 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.ephemeraleternity.com/?p=2979#comment-5706</guid>
		<description>Auu~ y u hate on Makoto? T_T

I think you really nailed why I watch what are otherwise mediocre and sometimes downright bad shows: the characters. Usually a specific character that&#039;s managed to hit all or at least enough of my &lt;em&gt;relevant interests&lt;/em&gt; to keep me watching. Like you, I can suspend my disbelief or ignore the flaws of the show/game, as long as I get enough satisfaction from seeing my favorite character. :p</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Auu~ y u hate on Makoto? T_T</p>
<p>I think you really nailed why I watch what are otherwise mediocre and sometimes downright bad shows: the characters. Usually a specific character that&#8217;s managed to hit all or at least enough of my <em>relevant interests</em> to keep me watching. Like you, I can suspend my disbelief or ignore the flaws of the show/game, as long as I get enough satisfaction from seeing my favorite character. :p</p>
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		<title>By: Hyr0</title>
		<link>http://blog.ephemeraleternity.com/2010/01/18/2d-characters-3d-projection/comment-page-1/#comment-5705</link>
		<dc:creator>Hyr0</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 19 Jan 2010 03:53:11 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.ephemeraleternity.com/?p=2979#comment-5705</guid>
		<description>This is, for the most part, the kind of thing I&#039;ve been trying to explain to people in my various writing and art classes. Some people get it and some don&#039;t. It&#039;s hard to explain. It&#039;s one of the reasons people are so interesting and capturing those differences in characters is hard. When it&#039;s done properly, though, the results are amazing.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>This is, for the most part, the kind of thing I&#8217;ve been trying to explain to people in my various writing and art classes. Some people get it and some don&#8217;t. It&#8217;s hard to explain. It&#8217;s one of the reasons people are so interesting and capturing those differences in characters is hard. When it&#8217;s done properly, though, the results are amazing.</p>
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		<title>By: Ryan A</title>
		<link>http://blog.ephemeraleternity.com/2010/01/18/2d-characters-3d-projection/comment-page-1/#comment-5704</link>
		<dc:creator>Ryan A</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 19 Jan 2010 03:32:29 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.ephemeraleternity.com/?p=2979#comment-5704</guid>
		<description>To make moe, don&#039;t set out for moe. Forced moe is not becoming, and I think it&#039;s a bit like genius in that it may &quot;just happen.&quot;

This is similar to girls (or guys I guess) &lt;em&gt;trying&lt;/em&gt; to act cute, but failing. What does this bring us to? Acting, and when we are dealing with 2D characters, there is little difference from physical acting and rendered acting at the core of intent. It is almost entirely about &lt;em&gt;convincing&lt;/em&gt;*... and it is that which allows the translation from 2D to 3D in my opinion.

*Given the generation of a convincing portrayal between film/stage/tv and animation can be very different, but they carry similar intent.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>To make moe, don&#8217;t set out for moe. Forced moe is not becoming, and I think it&#8217;s a bit like genius in that it may &#8220;just happen.&#8221;</p>
<p>This is similar to girls (or guys I guess) <em>trying</em> to act cute, but failing. What does this bring us to? Acting, and when we are dealing with 2D characters, there is little difference from physical acting and rendered acting at the core of intent. It is almost entirely about <em>convincing</em>*&#8230; and it is that which allows the translation from 2D to 3D in my opinion.</p>
<p>*Given the generation of a convincing portrayal between film/stage/tv and animation can be very different, but they carry similar intent.</p>
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		<title>By: phossil</title>
		<link>http://blog.ephemeraleternity.com/2010/01/18/2d-characters-3d-projection/comment-page-1/#comment-5703</link>
		<dc:creator>phossil</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 19 Jan 2010 03:14:33 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.ephemeraleternity.com/?p=2979#comment-5703</guid>
		<description>I think the secret to manufacturing moe characters is a good color scheme and combination. We are attracted to moe girls with blue hair or green eyes or nice clothes.  Well that and good drawnings. ^^</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I think the secret to manufacturing moe characters is a good color scheme and combination. We are attracted to moe girls with blue hair or green eyes or nice clothes.  Well that and good drawnings. ^^</p>
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